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Should FIU leave CUSA and go independent?

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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:54 am   
Golden Panther

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HooterHater wrote:
FIU Beisbol wrote:
Building A Dynasty wrote:
It seems CC's main point for going independent is to play better teams. I am skeptical FIU would truly be able to get a good group of teams into the Cage if we went independent. If it were so easy, why are we not doing it for our out-of-conference games? I think instead you would end up with a schedule similar to UMass.... Basically playing a bunch of different G5 teams at home. It's true that no C-USA program draws a lot of fan interest, but I don't think going independent would fix that.

I will say, with TV contracts starting to tank, I don't think going independent is as crazy as it was before. Nonetheless, I think there are still more pros for remaining in C-USA than there are for going independent.

The problem with attendance is rooted much deeper than the opponents FIU plays. It's a cultural issue that was exacerbated by many losing seasons in a row. Fix this cultural issue and begin to win, and then playing in C-USA will be fine.


Exactly. We can play Alabama and Ohio State each week and we'd still only get 1/4 the cage filled at most.

No, their fans would fill the place. Easily. FIU fans would be outnumbered 5-1.


I'm talking about FIU fans. I don't care or count their fans. We're trying to attract FIU fans to games with "big name programs".


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:10 pm   
Golden Panther

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CC is not arguing for "better" teams, necessarily, just teams that people have heard of. If FIU schedules Acorn State, then it deserves 2,000 in the stands, simple as that. It is easy to upgrade a schedule and cook a better hot dog in the stadium. As for "changing a culture," whatever that means, God only knows how such a thing might get done. I see people on here whining that because they had to stand in a line, FIU will never command their loyalty. Others have said "the professors are only here for a paycheck." No sxxx, Sherlock. Tell me a school where the professors work for free. I suspect some of these "culture change" people had a hard time making grades and also line their attics with tin foil to reflect the rays of alien space ships. We are a trolley car campus, like NYU, Long Beach State, Illinois-Chicago, and a host of others. Most such places don't even bother with football because of the lack of a campus-centered population, etc. The kids who do live on our campus are not going to come to games because some of you think they "ought" to. I think the 400-1,000 who used to plunk their butts in the end zone have figured out that no one is going to run them out of the sideline seats, so that is where they sit now. You want more students to come in, you have to give them a reason to come in, not scream at them like your parents must have done to you. Schedule teams people have heard of. Put hot tubs in the West End zone, and let girls in bathing suits in free. Grill burgers and dogs. None of this costs any money to speak of. But "changing a culture?" Please.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:39 pm   
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Diagodog wrote:
CC is not arguing for "better" teams, necessarily, just teams that people have heard of. If FIU schedules Acorn State, then it deserves 2,000 in the stands, simple as that. It is easy to upgrade a schedule and cook a better hot dog in the stadium. As for "changing a culture," whatever that means, God only knows how such a thing might get done. I see people on here whining that because they had to stand in a line, FIU will never command their loyalty. Others have said "the professors are only here for a paycheck." No sxxx, Sherlock. Tell me a school where the professors work for free. I suspect some of these "culture change" people had a hard time making grades and also line their attics with tin foil to reflect the rays of alien space ships. We are a trolley car campus, like NYU, Long Beach State, Illinois-Chicago, and a host of others. Most such places don't even bother with football because of the lack of a campus-centered population, etc. The kids who do live on our campus are not going to come to games because some of you think they "ought" to. I think the 400-1,000 who used to plunk their butts in the end zone have figured out that no one is going to run them out of the sideline seats, so that is where they sit now. You want more students to come in, you have to give them a reason to come in, not scream at them like your parents must have done to you. Schedule teams people have heard of. Put hot tubs in the West End zone, and let girls in bathing suits in free. Grill burgers and dogs. None of this costs any money to speak of. But "changing a culture?" Please.


So please tell me which teams "people have heard of" you would rather have scheduled that would actually come. This is semantics.

Also, not really fair to complain about the one FCS team scheduled. Most P5s schedule FCS teams for the free win.

And your attitude about the culture is my very point. I think UCF should be used as a model for the direction FIU should head.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:47 pm   
Golden Panther

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So how did UCF--the only game in that town, btw--change its culture, exactly?


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:54 pm   
Golden Panther

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As to the "what teams" question, there is no need to pretend you do not know what is being discussed. Enough people have jumped on board with plenty of lower echelon P-5 teams to suggest. And if we need to schedule a doormat each year, then at least it can be one with some history, some Florida connection, or a good band.

If you are happy playing Tractor Pull University on a regular basis and sitting in stands with 6 or 7 thousand people every other Saturday night, then more power to you. I think some practical things can be done to increase attendance, next year, that's all. I am doubtful that singing Kum by Yah is going to do it.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:27 pm   
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Good teams from the G5 conferences get shafted all the time. If Houston a few years ago when they were really good, were an independent, perhaps they could have kept their coach and maybe have gotten an invite to a P5 conference.

Same goes for Memphis and USF and UCF this year. While the AAC if better that CUSA, an undefeated team can barely crack the top 15. And a 9-1 USF (before last weekend) wasn't event ranked.

Think about it, UCF was undefeated and ranked behind a 3 loss team miss state lol.

If our stadium was a little nicer, I don't see why big programs like Texas, UCLA, and other west coast teams wouldn't agree to a home and home. Like Clawing said, we're based in one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country. Why wouldn't Washington or Washington state come down here and establish a presence. The list goes on and on and even if we get a lot of other team fans, at least it looks good for TV which right now is embarrassing with all the empty seats.

People are attracted to crowds and events. The michigan state(s) of this world would love coming down here. They don't have the clout Michigan has and it would help them recruit players as well as it would help us. Get as many top kids to our campus. If we can get 1 or 2 our of 20 that's a win.

Also being in such a weak conference like CUSA, makes big programs look bad when traveling there. UM got a ton of shyt of scheduling Ark state this year on their turf. Being independent does carry that stigma.

Someone mentioned it works for a team like ND. Actually it backfires when they have 1 or two loses and don't get the chance to redeem themselves in a conference game. Look at Ohio state. Two loses but if they beat Wisconsin this weekend, they are in the conversation again for the playoffs (rediculous I know).


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:43 pm   
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SP1029 wrote:
Good teams from the G5 conferences get shafted all the time. If Houston a few years ago when they were really good, were an independent, perhaps they could have kept their coach and maybe have gotten an invite to a P5 conference.

Same goes for Memphis and USF and UCF this year. While the AAC if better that CUSA, an undefeated team can barely crack the top 15. And a 9-1 USF (before last weekend) wasn't event ranked.

Think about it, UCF was undefeated and ranked behind a 3 loss team miss state lol.

If our stadium was a little nicer, I don't see why big programs like Texas, UCLA, and other west coast teams wouldn't agree to a home and home. Like Clawing said, we're based in one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country. Why wouldn't Washington or Washington state come down here and establish a presence. The list goes on and on and even if we get a lot of other team fans, at least it looks good for TV which right now is embarrassing with all the empty seats.

People are attracted to crowds and events. The michigan state(s) of this world would love coming down here. They don't have the clout Michigan has and it would help them recruit players as well as it would help us. Get as many top kids to our campus. If we can get 1 or 2 our of 20 that's a win.

Also being in such a weak conference like CUSA, makes big programs look bad when traveling there. UM got a ton of shyt of scheduling Ark state this year on their turf. Being independent does carry that stigma.

Someone mentioned it works for a team like ND. Actually it backfires when they have 1 or two loses and don't get the chance to redeem themselves in a conference game. Look at Ohio state. Two loses but if they beat Wisconsin this weekend, they are in the conversation again for the playoffs (rediculous I know).


What does being independent have anything to do with Houston keeping their coach or moving up a conference?

And again, if so many teams are dying to come down here, why can't we at least schedule them for an out of conference game? Because they aren't dying to come down here.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:47 pm   
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Diagodog wrote:
So how did UCF--the only game in that town, btw--change its culture, exactly?


You basically transition from a "trolley" campus to kids living on campus. You become more selective with the students you let in. You build your brand.

As it is now, FIU's mission seems to instead be to serve as a public university for the masses. That's fine, but I don't think that helps things like athletics grow. With the residences starting to pop up around campus, such as the one across 8th St, FIU may eventually head in that direction. We'll see. This is a digression from the point of the OP though.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:53 pm   
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Building A Dynasty wrote:
SP1029 wrote:
Good teams from the G5 conferences get shafted all the time. If Houston a few years ago when they were really good, were an independent, perhaps they could have kept their coach and maybe have gotten an invite to a P5 conference.

Same goes for Memphis and USF and UCF this year. While the AAC if better that CUSA, an undefeated team can barely crack the top 15. And a 9-1 USF (before last weekend) wasn't event ranked.

Think about it, UCF was undefeated and ranked behind a 3 loss team miss state lol.

If our stadium was a little nicer, I don't see why big programs like Texas, UCLA, and other west coast teams wouldn't agree to a home and home. Like Clawing said, we're based in one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country. Why wouldn't Washington or Washington state come down here and establish a presence. The list goes on and on and even if we get a lot of other team fans, at least it looks good for TV which right now is embarrassing with all the empty seats.

People are attracted to crowds and events. The michigan state(s) of this world would love coming down here. They don't have the clout Michigan has and it would help them recruit players as well as it would help us. Get as many top kids to our campus. If we can get 1 or 2 our of 20 that's a win.

Also being in such a weak conference like CUSA, makes big programs look bad when traveling there. UM got a ton of shyt of scheduling Ark state this year on their turf. Being independent does carry that stigma.

Someone mentioned it works for a team like ND. Actually it backfires when they have 1 or two loses and don't get the chance to redeem themselves in a conference game. Look at Ohio state. Two loses but if they beat Wisconsin this weekend, they are in the conversation again for the playoffs (rediculous I know).


What does being independent have anything to do with Houston keeping their coach or moving up a conference?

And again, if so many teams are dying to come down here, why can't we at least schedule them for an out of conference game? Because they aren't dying to come down here.


I explained both of those things in my post. But ok

Good P5 programs don't want to travel to G5 programs. The only exception is in state due to proximity and still doesn't happen often. But if you're an independent, problem solved.

Houston lost their coach because he wanted a chance to play for a national title and earn more money. In the AAC, Houston couldn't do either one. That year with the Houston Tv marker, they probably made the most money out of all the schools in AAC but because of revenue sharing, they end up losing out.

And AAC is considered the conference right behind the P5. Being in an even lower conference is just pointless. We gain nothing.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:04 pm   
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Well Dynasty, I get it, but the things you mention about changes at UCF take years and years, and would require wholesale reorientation at the highest levels of the university. That is simply dreaming. We could have burgers and hot tubs next season, and a decent schedule in two years. Why would you want to stand against that?


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:12 pm   
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You know what we really need? Is a new AD who actually understands how to build a brand.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:17 pm   
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SP, I just don't think it's realistic to think leaving a conference immediately changes your perception. If good P5 programs don't want to travel to G5 programs, why would they want to travel to independent FIU? It's still FIU. Even with a package Cage, we have 20,000 people in the stands. Would that be good enough? At what point is good enough? I'm open to hearing your thoughts, it just doesn't make sense to me at the moment.

Houston lost their coach because they could not pay him Texas Longhorn money. I don't think going independent would have immediately changed that. You could argue that maybe if they would have been independent for 10 years prior to that, things change, but that's speculative and I still would argue unlikely. G5 programs lose their coaches because they cannot pay them. You wanna keep your coach? Pay them P5 money.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:17 pm   
Golden Panther

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SP1029 wrote:
You know what we really need? Is a new AD who actually understands how to build a brand.


Now this is something I think we can all agree on.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:20 pm   
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Diagodog wrote:
Well Dynasty, I get it, but the things you mention about changes at UCF take years and years, and would require wholesale reorientation at the highest levels of the university. That is simply dreaming. We could have burgers and hot tubs next season, and a decent schedule in two years. Why would you want to stand against that?


Clearly the rebuilding will take years. UCF has a head start on us. But I see zero reasons to begin a transition toward that direction now.

And I'm down for burgers and hot tubs and certainly better opponents (within reason; don't want to keep losing). My point is that I don't think going independent is the main solution here and I am skeptical of how going independent will change the opponents we are able to bring in. I guess you never know until you try.


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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:30 pm   
Golden Panther

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Building A Dynasty wrote:
SP1029 wrote:
You know what we really need? Is a new AD who actually understands how to build a brand.


Now this is something I think we can all agree on.


Agreed!!!


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